A gardener, faced with a derelict wasteland, has to clear out the abandoned cars, leaky drums of toxic chemicals, brambles and fly-tipped rubbish before he can even start thinking about doing any proper gardening.

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I wrote ‘18 common misconceptions…‘ out of an awareness of the extent to which the average citizen’s mind, when it comes to the issues of paedophilia and child sexuality, is encumbered with the most toxic and tenacious junk.

In this essay I will try to be like a gardener who, having cleared the wasteland, thinks about planting trees, seeding lawns, establishing herbaceous borders and a vegetable patch. This essay tries to answer the question: ‘assuming paedophilia is not the evil that society imagines it to be, what benefits, if any, does it bring to individuals, the community and society?’

But before turning to paedophilia let’s look at a more fundamental issue.

Children’s Sexual Rights

If the concept of sexual rights for prepubescent children exists at all in the mindset of WEIRD society it is as a negative: the right not to be sexually exploited or abused.

These negative rights are undoubtedly worth upholding and defending. However this emphasis on protecting children from the worst manifestations of sex is a symptom of how Society sees child sexuality as a problem, a problem which society solves through denying that child sexuality exists and suppressing all manifestations of it (think how when children act sexually Society attributes their motivation to ‘experimentation’ and ‘curiosity’, not to those drivers of sexual behaviour in adolescents, adults and non-human animals: ‘desire’ and ‘pleasure’).

The recognition that children have positive sexual rights as well as negative ones precedes and underlies all arguments in support for the legitimacy of child-adult intimacy.

I suggest children should have the following sexual rights:

– to have their sexuality considered as having value in itself and not just as some preparation for sexual maturity and adulthood,

– that no body part should be mutilated, excised or altered in order to discourage, change or control their sexuality,

– a right to a sexual education which acknowledges the primacy of desire and pleasure (‘primacy’ because Pleasure is the first thing a child knows and experiences about sex, with Desire following on soon after),

– the right to a sexual education which furnishes children with  a vocabulary and concepts which will enable them to think about, make sense of and communicate sexual feelings and thoughts (why can a little girl come out of sex education course knowing the basics of genetics but not knowing what the word ‘clitoris’ refers to?),

– a right to a lived sexual education as well as an academic one. Children should learn about sexuality in the same way as they learn about all other things – through observation, discussion, play and performance, with their peers and trusted adults, at home and in the community,

– the right to enjoy sexual pleasure and to agency over their bodies,

– the right to be listened to and to receive honest answers,

– a right to privacy,

– that a child’s ‘no’ be respected, and that manipulation, coercion or persistence should not be used to by-pass or override that withholding of consent,

– The right to say Yes as well as to say No (I will argue further on that a child can not have one without the other – which is why campaigns telling children to ‘just say No’ are doomed to be ineffective),

– the right to choose with whom they express their sexuality.

Paedophilia: The Best Love?

Fatherhood civilises young men: the love that a baby demands changes young men for the better, calms their aggression and makes them more caring.

The nature of the object of love, if that love be not selfish, molds its lover’s nature and actions to it.

It would be an interesting exercise for people of different sexualities to list those qualities which most constitute their ideal of ‘Love’. A vanilla heterosexual’s list might include ‘sexual chemistry’, ‘reliability’, ‘shared goals’ and ‘long-term commitment’ – though, of course, I can only speculate…

However, I can speak for myself as a paedophile. An adult’s love for a child seems to especially demand the following qualities:

– Restraint: because our love should never depend on the child’s willingness to engage in intimacy with us. Nor should we forget that even if s/he does wish for intimacy there are reasons why we should still consider refraining from it;

– Generosity: because an adult is capable of giving more time, attention, resources and means to a child than a child can give the adult;

– Selflessness: because the loved person brings no social status, power or wealth with it;

– Gentleness: because children are smaller and weaker than adults;

– Sensitivity: because children  and less emotionally hardened than adults, experiencing emotions on a more extreme scale. All of which means that the adult should be more alert to the child’s needs and responses;

– Attentiveness: because children are less able to assert themselves and are so often discounted or overlooked;

– Responsiveness: because children are less predictable than adults;

– Respectfulness: because respect, which they are unaccustomed to receiving from adults, is the greatest gift an adult can give to a child as it allows them to flourish and be more present in the world;

– Serenity: because children need adults whose presence is reassuring.

Undoubtedly some will object that such a list is meaningless, that a list of aspirations hardly qualifies as ‘evidence’ for anything much.

Yet we live in a world where economic surveys and political polls question us about our aspirations, where people aspire to wealth, fame or a better world, and where advertisers and marketeers spend billions on manipulating those aspirations.

Aspirations drive our actions and define our moral goals. It means something that, as I suspect, the great majority of paedophiles aspire to a relationship that embodies such qualities.

On a more mundane level paedophilia is a love less tainted by the irksome mundanity and compromises of the adult world – mortgages, career prospects, cars, income worries &c.

Paedophilia is also a love not based on the reproductive imperative. Indeed in some discussions with ‘norms’ it has become clear that they find paedophilia perplexing because they can not see what there is about a child that one could fall in love with and that they can only conceive of themselves loving a child in whom they have a genetic stake.

Better protection of children from sexual abuse

Age of Consent laws not only fail to protect children from sexual manipulation and coercion, but enact a trade-off by which society protects its fundamental belief in the asexuality of children at the cost of increasing children’s vulnerability to sexual predation.

These laws fail children because:

– they penalise caring and consensual relationships as harshly as they penalise men and women who force themselves on children. Given that the law does not recognise a child’s consent there is little (if any?) extra penalty for coercive or manipulative behaviour on the part of the adult, and thus there is no extra legal discouragement for such behaviour.

– the fact that the law (and therefore Society) does not recognise a child’s consent as being valid means that representations of ethical, consensual child-adult intimacy are not only absent in the culture, but are effectively forbidden, leaving people who find themselves sexually attracted to children having to build an identity exclusively from negative examples and role models: something likely to encourage reckless, manipulative and coercive urges and behaviour.

If the law at least acknowledged as a mitigating factor a child’s willingness and eagerness to engage in intimacy with a defendant this would at least signal that gentle, respectful intimacy was preferable to violence and coercion.

– Consent laws are based on, and reinforce, a model of child-adult intimacy that is statistically erroneous. This has resulted in an epidemic of trauma, alienation and suffering (this is best explained in Susan Clancy’s book ‘The Trauma Myth’ – you can read a summary of her thesis here).

– Consent laws assume, rely on and enforce the disempowerment of children vis-a-vis their bodies and their sexuality. Society, through its laws, has chosen to police child sexuality through maintaining children in a state of ignorance (which it euphemistically calls ‘innocence’) and powerlessness: effectively depriving children of the capacity to make decisions about what happens to them sexually. This leaves them more vulnerable to manipulation, deception and coercion.

Campaigns which try to tell children to ‘just say ‘no’!’ fail because children are given no understanding of what it is they are saying ‘no’ to. Of course, to give them such knowledge would risk them deciding, in certain circumstances, they may actually want to say ‘yes’. For reasons I examine in depth here this would be deeply problematic for the structures and institutions of Capitalism, especially Consumer Capitalism.

– Consent laws prevent children from learning about relationships, sexuality, hygiene, respect, responsibility and contraception in the best way possible: from controlled play and experience, involving people whom they love, respect and trust.

Society and the law pay lip-service to the idea that sexuality is about ‘respect’, ‘love’, ‘mutuality’ and’ responsibility’ (omitting, of course, ‘pleasure’ and ‘desire’) yet they make it illegal for anyone whom the child loves, trusts or respects to actually model, live out or demonstrate those laudable qualities, preferring instead to leave its children’s sex education to too-late, abstract sex-ed lessons in school, the internet, television and play-ground gossip, and the commercial concerns that have designs on children’s desires and aspirations – the fashion industry, the pop industry, consumer culture &c

– Consent laws and the attitudes that they reinforce have created an atmosphere of intergenerational fear, suspicion and alienation.

The effects of this are well documented. Children are taught to view all adults with suspicion, and taught that they possess, in the guise of false accusations, a ‘nuclear option’ against them. And adults are too afraid of being accused of ‘paedophilia’ [sic] to take any responsibility for unfamiliar children who may be lost or distressed, and fathers are afraid of showing affection publicly to their own children;

– they create a sudden access to sex at (in the UK) 16 rather than a gradual access which would be more in tune with the natural process of learning. This encourages bingeing and risk taking (a parallel is the attitudes to alcohol and children in Mediterranean countries and in Anglo-saxon countries. The former allow children a controlled access to alcohol throughout their development. This approach seems to result in much maturer attitudes than the Anglo-saxon ‘no booze till sixteen’ model);

– they criminalise border-line cases, and tend to both criminalise and pathologise all manifestations of child sexuality, including consensual activity with peers.

Young children, the very people whose ‘innocence’ these laws purport to defend, are finding themselves labelled as ‘sex offenders‘ – suggesting that these laws are less about protecting children than maintaining the illusion of their asexuality.

– they create a huge amount of unnecessary work for police, courts and prisons. The many cases of consensual intimacy swamp the relatively rare cases of genuine abuse, making the latter harder to detect, investigate and prosecute.

Role model, mentor, friend & lover

A close, intense and (possibly) intimate relationship with an adult lover will enrich a child’s life in ways no other relationship can: the child will have an adult role model who is not an authority figure; and, unlike all other relationships a child will have with adults, it will be a relationship that they have chosen to engage in and which they can opt out of (are there any other close relationships with adults that a child can opt out of?).

They will know that their lover is interested in them not because they represent a genetic investment (as is the case with parents and relatives) or because the adult is paid to be interested in them (as with teachers, social workers, doctors &c) but simply because that adult specially values them as a person in their own right.

Such a relationship will give the child a foot in the adult world – they will learn how to interact with adults on an equal basis, and experience a quality of respect and admiration that their family and professionals are not in a position to offer the child, and their self-esteem will flourish accordingly.

For the third time in less than a month I feel obliged to use the same quote from ‘Tiger, Tiger’ by Margaux Fragoso (apologies to those who may feel this to be excessive):

“…time with a pedophile can be like a drug high. There was this girl who said it’s as if the pedophile lives in a fantastic kind of reality, and that fantasticness infects everything. Kind of like they’re children themselves, only full of the knowledge that children don’t have. Their imaginations are stronger than kids’ and they can build realities that small kids would never be able to dream up. They can make the child’s world… ecstatic somehow…”

An added effect of such ecstatic relationships might be that the child learns (against the grain of Society’s best efforts) that Happiness comes from relationships rather than consumption.

My own experience with child-friends has been that they have always readily assumed the ‘maturity’ that an equal friendship with an adult has asked of them; which makes me suspect that our society holds children back, infantilises them (as, indeed, it does adults), and discourages them from becoming independent and autonomous. Histories of childhood testify to children proudly and willingly assuming roles now reserved for adults, such as looking after younger siblings, earning a wage, and helping with the running of the household (What’s Wrong with Child Labour?).

Respected and responsible paedophiles could even act as mentors for children having social or academic difficulties. Indeed I suspect that much of the best work with troubled and disruptive children could only be done if motivated by the kind of devotion, insight and selflessness that comes with being a lover of children.

WEIRD societies are highly age-stratified. Indeed it would not be exaggerating to talk of ‘intergenerational apartheid’. Children exist in zones from which all adults, other than parents and professionals, are excluded. The older generation of paedophiles will be aware of the extent to which children have disappeared from public spaces. The fostering of strong friendships between children and non-familial adults would break down this intergenerational apartheid and change society from one that is age-stratified to one dense with cohesion and solidarity across the ages. Children would be better able to escape the nuclear family and become embedded in their geographical community.

But here I’m starting to stray into something – how the legitimisation of child-adult intimacy could change society – that, though relevant, the broaching of which would take me way past an acceptable word count for a blog-essay.

For those of you interested in my take on this question can I suggest the following two essays ‘Towards the aetiology of paedophobia‘ and especially ‘The future is green, and liberating for children‘.

 

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19 thoughts on “Some Arguments For a Kinder World

  1. You say: “a parallel is the attitudes to alcohol and children in Mediterranean countries and in Anglo-saxon countries. The former allow children a controlled access to alcohol throughout their development. This approach seems to result in much maturer attitudes than the Anglo-saxon ‘no booze till sixteen’ model”.
    I see that you paraphrase a portion of a comment I made to your post “The Good, the Bad and the Virtuous – Part 1”, see https://consentinghumans.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/the-good-the-bad-and-the-virtuous/#comment-201
    In fact in the US it is nodrop of alcohol till 21, not 16. I advise anyone interested to read Stanton Peele directly (http://www.peele.net/lib/index.html).

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  2. The following ethical criteria quoted from “Positive Memories; Cases of positive memories of erotic and platonic relationships and contacts of children with adults, as seen from the perspective of the former minor”, by T. Rivas, 2011, could usefully be included in the education of the child regarding his or her sexual rights (teenagers qualify as either the adult or the child, depending on the dynamic of the relationship):

    Important ethical criteria

    1. Both the adult and child want to have a relationship with each other and experience the relationship as positive. The minor should be able to withdraw from the relationship at any moment. The adult should also make it clear that any sexual contact should be intrinsically desired by the minor, rather than being just a favour to the adult.

    2. In case of erotic contact, there must not be any form of physical harm or unwanted pregnancy.

    3. Personal boundaries of minors ought to be respected and any possible erotic contact must be completely consensual. In case of doubt about the child’s wishes (e.g., because these have not been clearly expressed yet), the adult should simply refrain from any erotic contact. The initiative for such contact should generally lie with the child. This ensures that any possible erotic contact will be based on the child’s own wishes and over-all personality. Of course, there should not be any signs of manipulation or brainwashing by the adult. Consensual ‘paedophile’ erotic contact is by definition based upon the consensual erotic activities that minors typically practice with themselves or other minors. Especially in relationships with young children, normally there will be no penetration, but only kissing, caressing, petting, mutual manual stimulation, shared masturbation, or oral stimulation, with only rare exceptions.

    4. The adult must be honest about the nature and extent of his or her feelings and affection for the child. The minor should be made generally aware of what he or she can expect from the adult and from the relationship to prevent painful disappointments and feelings of being betrayed by the adult. The adult should analyse the nature of the feelings of the minor and find out whether they match his or her own wishes and intentions.

    5. The adult must in general respect the child’s personality, activities, and wishes, and the minor’s personal, social or relational freedom should not in any way be limited by the adult.

    6. In case the child has a relatively good relationship with his or her parents or care-takers, they ought to be fully informed about the relationship. Important parental decisions about the relationship should be respected. The adult should also make sure that the relationship does not negatively affect the emotional bond between the child and the parents. More generally, important boundaries set by societal, religious, and cultural taboos, and the law should not be crossed, as long as this might create a scandal or negatively affect the child’s self-perception or perception of the relationship. In general, any adult who feels attracted to a minor should realize that it may take quite some time (perhaps decades) to change the dominant perception of voluntary and harmless relationships, and always act accordingly.

    7. The adult should not spoil the child too much but rather support a positive development of his or her self-esteem and self-control, personal talents and potential, social skills, and a moral, pro-social attitude. Sexuality should not replace other emotional or relational needs and the frequency of erotic contacts should be moderate to avoid so-called sexual addiction.

    8. The adult should make the minor aware of the existence of real child abuse and warn him or her of non-consensual sex.

    9. Not only should relationships be accepted by (benevolent) care-takers and relatives of the minor, but children should also be protected against avoidable negative reactions of bullies and narrow-minded neighbours. This implies a basic level of discretion about the relationship, although such discretion ought not to lead to ‘secrets’ towards other adults with whom the minor has a close emotional bond.

    10. Relationships should never be ended abruptly and the adult should always try to stay in touch as long as the minor needs this. In general, affectionate erotic relationships deserve to be continued platonically after the erotic part would have ended.

    Only relationships that meet the above criteria deserve one’s respect and protection.

    **********

    A role for the parents or care-takers

    Ideally, the parents or care-takers have an important role to play during a close intergenerational relationship of their child. By communicating with their child, they could regularly check (in a relaxed, non-directive way) whether the relationship and its possible erotic aspects really match the child’s wishes and expectations and whether the adult adequately respects the child’s boundaries. More generally, they could also explore the adult’s personality and integrity and make sure he or she has no (relevant) criminal record or reputation as a rapist.
    **********

    Thus, their awareness of criteria for positive and safe relationships will certainly not lead to an increase of real abuse, but rather prevent potential adult partners who have good intentions but unfortunately lack basic empathic skills from endangering the minor’s well-being.

    Furthermore, decriminalization of positive relationships will generally lead to more openness between parents or care-takers and minors about such relationships, but also about sexual abuse, and this, in turn, will be discouraging to real child-molesters and dangerous psychopaths.

    To ensure the child’s safety, it could be a good idea, in case of doubts about the adult’s intentions, to allow any possible erotic activity only after a period of months of exclusively platonic contact. This may also be important because it familiarizes the minor with what can be expected from the adult and prevents unrealistic dreams about the relationship.

    From a moral standpoint, this inevitably means that, for the time being, it is, in general, not a good idea (for an adult) to engage in consensual ‘paedophile’ relationships with minors. Many – or even most – consensual relationships will inevitably end up being re-interpreted as abuse, which may have damaging psychological consequences for the (former) child, in terms of confusion and guilt.

    Only from a conservative, closed-minded outlook on life and human values may it seem obvious that some phenomena which are consensual and psychologically harmless should still continue to be regarded as immoral. Starting from any other approach, personal experiences are obviously more important than prejudices and caricatures.

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    1. That’s a great list – I’ve really got to systematically read through Rivas – but it’s probably not the best bed-time reading as I doubt I’ll get much sleep after having read some of the stuff in his book.

      I agree with all the points, but feel that in his attitude to parents he’s really envisaging how licit child-adult relationships could operate in western society as it is today.

      I’m not quite so optimistic as to whether parents would accept their child engaging in a sexual relationship with an adult in the context of the consumer capitalism mind-set – but I’m happy to be proven wrong (though I seem to remember one or two examples being posted in response to an earlier article – I think they involved adolescent boys, which, till recently, I think was more accepted, certainly in amongst the upper classes).

      I guess the best we can hope from parents is that, in individual cases, they can see beyond the prejudices society promotes regarding paedophiles to the person him or herself.

      I think this happened to me when the mother of a little girl, to whom I was very close, cottoned on that I was a paedo but seemed to trust me, or realised that if her daughter and I did become intimate it would be in a ‘sweet’ way rather than ‘sinsister’ one. I’m not sure. She certainly didn’t mind me and her daughter spending a lot of time alone together when we could have gotten up to just about anything (but, sadly, we didn’t).

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      1. “I think they involved adolescent boys.” As an aside, I think I have previously mentioned a second code of ethics edited by Frans Gieles and authored by Parker Rossman. These ethics apply to the dynamic of an adult and boy relationship, the boy being between the ages of 12 and 16 (ipce.info/ipceweb/Statements/code.htm).

        On the topic of the parental role in such relationships, Rossman has this to say: “A boylover must respect the role and authority of a boy’s parents and not seek to undermine that role.”

        Your story LSM, of how you and the mother of the little girl interacted was interesting, and demonstrates perhaps that in situations where a parent is rational and objective about what is beneficial for their child, then we might prevail. When all is said and done, it boils down to trust at an individual level in the end. I experienced two situations that were quite similar to yours; in each case though they centred around single mothers; they mums were fully aware of my primary sexuality, and they gave me access to their kids. The first, in the West, was interesting because the mother when she was a girl had been ‘played with’ whilst sitting on the lap of an aunt; so one might have thought she would have recoiled the moment I ‘fessed-up my sexuality. That was not the case. The second, in the East, involved a mum that was concerned at the absence of a father-figure in her child’s life; her child was patently suffering from this. For her, my presence was perceived to be a win-win situation for all three of us. The country in question had far less hang ups historically at the societal level with regard to intergenerational ‘friendships’.

        Incidentally, to further counter the ignorance and rhetoric espoused by those who refuse to acknowledge the facts, I include one of many, many examples where the child takes the initiative. This, from the Nobel Prize winner André Gide:

        Gide’s first sexual experience with another person occurred in North Africa when he was 23. A boy whose bare knees were enchanting carried Gide’s rug to the beach, spread it out, and threw himself upon it with a laugh, raising his arms in clear invitation. “I sat watching him, wondering what this charming youngster would do next, my heart pounding at the realization that he and I had the same desires. When disappointment clouded his face, and he stood pouting, I seized his hand to tumble him back onto the rug, whereupon he threw off his clothes that were fastened with no more than a string. The touch of his naked body pressed against me was as exhilarating as the lovely splendour of the sunlight on the sand.”

        A few rather kool quotes from Gide:

        Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.

        It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.

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    2. “by societal, religious, and cultural taboos”…….Yes but maybe in some cases you would be doing the child a favour, If (s)he has strict parents, Where sexual shame is ubiquitous, A sexual relationship (as long as its taken in small steps) could serve as a release for the youth, i’m talking moderation, Let him try some alcohol, But only a small sample etc. The sexual side of the relationship seems of the highest of importance, When in reality like in Dangerous liaisons, its just another fun part. Actually i think to much alcohol is cause for much more concern; In the book TOC Mentions a time when MJ…Left some kids alone with free reign over the house, with access to the drinks buffet, Where one passed out, Or was close to it.
      The wrongness of adult/child sexual relations is seen as wrong, Because it violates a postulated ‘natural order’….I too was arguing with a child protection zealot, with her repeating ‘they can’t consent’…By definition its abuse’ mantra ad nauseam….It seems repeating herself is all she could do, because she couldn’t back up her claims of ‘harm’ or the causal effects, Because with feminist victimology, There is no room for shades of grey…its the inherent evil of masculine eroticism (Angelides, 2004,2005).

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      1. My take on this is that the set of ethics has been written to minimise the potential for harm done to the child, from any source, and not just short-term harm, but long-lasting harm too. The message from #6 IMHO, is that the adult must be cognisant of a broad range of third-party aspects, any one of which could explode at any time and spell disaster for the immediate, short-term and long-term well-being of the child.

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  3. Worst of all your post, despite being well written, is that you dedicate to poison people (especially those who are unfortunately pedophiles) with false promises of love and relationships with children, which will not happen, because that is pure fantasy of your mind (what they do the mental traces, destroy your mind, like a tumor), please stop lying to people with your sexual engrams.

    I wrote a thousand comments about this, pedophilia is at best, a alternative medicine to avoid teleiophilia and at worst, a harmful mental trace as teleiophilia and zoophilia. “Are all sexual orientations” it’s all a lie, I’ve had this engram in the past (done for my subconscious mind, to avoid my teleiophilia) and has only caused me emotional problems, these people are the same who are supporting zoophilia or sex between adults (only for animals, unnatural act for humans) or even with babies! are all really wrong in the head and this pedophile activism is a reflection of his fantasy, the tricks of these people is reinventing childhood (children and babies want sexual intimacy even without sexual hormones and do not know about what that is!) and harassing and expelling in their online chats all those who do not commune with their sect.

    Hebephilia is not just another name for “pedophiles” like idiots said, it is our human sexuality. There you will find true love and mental and spiritual health, and not this fake sexuality.

    If all of you are Kinds, I am the pope (for the moment…).

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    1. Thanks for your comment TNSO

      >”despite being well written”

      I’ll take that compliment gratefully from your comment 😉

      However, to answer the points you make – I’d like to point out that the great majority of the benefits I argue for here are as valid for celibate relationships as they are for those with sensual or sexual elements.

      As far as children not being interested in sexual intimacy with adults this is a simple matter – if that is the truth then I don’t see what the problem is:

      – if there exist children capable of experiencing pleasure, feel desire and seek intimacy – then let those children seek out what partners they wish and say ‘yes’ when they wish and say ‘no’ when they don’t.

      – if, as you suggest, there are no children capable of experiencing pleasure, feeling desire or seeking intimacy – then nothing I propose suggests that these children should in anyway be obliged, coerced or manipulated into engaging in unwanted intimacy. The result would be ‘no sex for paedos’ and we’d just have to accept that.

      But as things stand – and for reasons outlined in this essay – attitudes and laws make it easier for genuine child abusers to manipulate and coerce unwilling children, and for ‘childhood’ to be vitiated in a variety of ways.

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      1. If you’re right, I’m now on Twitter I am discussing with people from “children can not consent” to “sex with teens is bad” and that type of garbage, the only thing I say is that you give false hope to people having a relationship, I know about 7 year old girls, and they do not want any relationship, you do not understand everything that goes step to step, and prepubescents they are not as developed for that type of things, in general?

        But these extremist anti-pedo people say that children can explore sexually themselves but not adults! and I tell them that adults are also human beings and not have to be excluded in child sexuality, in short, yes, lensman, you’re right about that (in some aspects), but little children, animals and babies cannot consent, literally, and you know that, and please enough of that crap of “pedophilia is the best love”, it makes me sick, my hebephilia is pure love, I assure you, as much as yours.

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    2. I think TNSO, you would do well to undertake some study, primarily because as far as I can see, you run the risk of being labelled predictable, either that or a very badly scratched record.

      A good place to start would be here: ipce.info/host/rivas/positive_memories.htm#Html

      Here you will find the credible documentation of 118 cases of positive memories of erotic and platonic relationships and contacts of children with adults, as seen from the perspective of the former minor.

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      1. Thank scratched record, I just put this link in Twitter to a “children can not consent” zealot, and you guess? He says he does not want you trash literature.

        They are all ignorants.

        But that’s nothing, relationships between adults and children would remain the product of an engram, why they believes is right what happened, like adult couples say their attraction and sex is good, that is not proof of anything in my point of view.

        But is a valid proof at your point of view. Point taken.

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        1. “But that’s nothing, relationships between adults and children would remain the product of an engram, why they believes is right what happened, like adult couples say their attraction and sex is good …”

          I tried to translate this sentence into English via 56 different languages, including English, using Google Translate, but nothing made sense. Can anyone assist please?

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            1. Huh? You mean L Ron Hubbard, the founder of the church of scientology, who was proved to be a pathological liar when it came to his history, background and achievements, and whose writings and documents in addition reflected his egoism, greed, avarice, lust for power, vindictiveness and aggressiveness – in effect just another run-of-the-mill American lunatic cultist psychopath.

              No thanks, I don’t think I will turn to such an evil, corrupt and manifestly bonkers individual as that for answers.

              What I was after was a translation of the sentence that I had highlighted earlier: your sentence … simply because I could make no sense of it all.

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  4. You beat me to it. 😛

    The next video I’m researching heavily involves the potential benefits of child-adult relationships. Would you mind very much if I used some of these points, and cited you?

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    1. >”You beat me to it. :P”

      Ah ha! The early bird gets the worm!
      (but the early worm gets eaten)

      >”The next video I’m researching heavily involves the potential benefits of child-adult relationships. Would you mind very much if I used some of these points, and cited you?

      Please feel welcome to use whatever you wish from what I’ve written – the more people putting forwards pro arguments the better.

      I look forwards to watching your next video.

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  5. Fore-warnings in mind (lest we become too virtue-laden) I agree with all of the above.
    I wish I knew a way for us to get together without attracting robotic reactionary counter-assaults.
    I am willing to put my trust in the ones who say they are actual CLs. Maybe that is being gullible, but, as the saying goes… you know…

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    1. “I wish I knew a way for us to get together.”

      If no-one proposes anything, nothing will happen.

      ipce for many years have had in-real-life meetings, and in a different European country each time, indeed back in the 80s there were even conferences in hotels with young friends accompanying some of the delegates.

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  6. The analogy to being a gardener faced with the daunting prospect of clearing a toxic, junk-filled wasteland is an excellent one. I can find no fault with the content of your essay, namely: the end result … a sublime vista of well-ordered, fertile and productive land.

    However, a lot of work has to be undertaken to establish nirvana. You not only need green fingers and the proper tools, you need to sow the appropriate seeds in the correct places and at the right time too.

    Seems to me we as a minority group need to get together real soon to plan and implement the stages that comprise this work.

    Like

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